New York Doctors Sick Over ObamaCare: “It’s basically going to be a race to the bottom”

Posted by on Oct 18, 2013 at 8:25 am
obamafail

Remind us again why Ted Cruz is crazy for wanting to stop this mess.

New York doctors are feeling queasy about ObamaCare — and many won’t participate in the new national insurance program because they fear they’ll go broke, The Post has learned.

“ObamaCare is going to send me more patients to see and then cut the payments to provide the care — that’s what’s going to happen,” predicted Donald Moore, a primary-care doctor in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn. “I will not accept it.”

Moore claims that President Obama made a big mistake by requiring uninsured residents to obtain medical coverage from for-profit insurers through the ObamaCare health exchanges instead of through public health programs like Medicaid.

Under tremendous pressure to keep costs down and profits up, Moore said he’s concerned that commercial insurers will pay doctors less for patient visits and services than either Medicaid or Medicare.

Many doctors, he argues, won’t be able to cover their costs with such skimpy fees.

Moore scoffed, “Who’s going to sustain the losses? The insurance companies? It’s basically going to be a race to the bottom.”

Despite a much publicized rollout, many other doctors said they haven’t decided whether to become ObamaCare providers, because they haven’t been notified by insurers or the state about ­reimbursement rates.

“I have not spoken with anyone who has made a decision to participate in the exchanges. We simply don’t have any information about which we can make a decision,” said Dr. Paul Orloff, president of the New York County Medical Society.

“We have no idea what the reimbursements will be or what the claims-form process will entail.”

Other than that, things are going great. At least now that the media isn’t distracted by the Obama Shutdown they’re free to do their jobs. Sure.

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21 Responses to “New York Doctors Sick Over ObamaCare: “It’s basically going to be a race to the bottom””

  1. NateDogg614 on 18/18/13 at 8:44 am

    “Moore claims that President Obama made a big mistake by requiring uninsured residents to obtain medical coverage from for-profit insurers through the ObamaCare health exchanges instead of through public health programs like Medicaid.”

    Don’t worry. I’m sure he’ll work to correct that mistake. Not as if that was the ulterior end-goal or anything. ;)

  2. dahozho on 18/18/13 at 9:44 am

    I’ve already received a letter from one of my drs announcing that she is retiring from her surgical practice. Its just going to get worse.

    People should read up on the problems NHS over in Britain with medical workers who are immigrants, can’t communicate with patients, and generally have bad attitudes towards actually caring for people.

    At a minimum, two US gov’t-run healthcare systems should have stopped Obozocare cold– IHS and VA. But the msm doesn’t want you to look at reality these days.

  3. runningrn on 18/18/13 at 10:14 am

    Well, obviously Big Doctor is a greedy, lazy institution that wants the perqs and cache of having MD after it’s name but none of the responsibility or collective duty. How selfish and evil can they be? Shouldering the sole responsibility of going to school and training long hours during the best years of their lives at great personal and financial cost, making minor ducats as residents and fellows while people that chose other career paths are making real money, paying in the 6 figures for malpractice insurance and huge chunks of change for setting up an office, buying equipment, hiring staff, etc., etc., it’s unconscionable that they would actually want to make money!! Don’t they know they are here to serve the great, unwashed masses and be happy to be doing it? How dare they expect any kind of compensation! The thing is, I bet that a lot of these doctors in NYC voted for this crap, so I don’t pity them. I do pity those of us in the healthcare industry who did not vote for this crap!

  4. Barb the Evil Genius on 18/18/13 at 10:21 am

    I don’t need to read up on NHS, dahozho. It’s here. Due to a outrageously long waiting time, my oldest daughter ended up seeing an alternate pediatrician for a physical. Doctor had bad attitude and hard to understand accent. Daughter has anxiety issues and needs paperwork filled out for renewing her driver’s license. Doctor’s part only involved general health questions involving daughter’s health. Doctor *refused* to even look at paperwork. Said she was too scared to sign anything with “what’s going on in Washington.” And this, at the supposedly prestigious Cleveland Clinic.

  5. ThomasD on 18/18/13 at 10:22 am

    Beware wolves in sheep(skin) clothing.

    This isn’t people truly opposed to Obamacare. This is part of the Obamacare playbook – attacking private insurance companies.

    Talks to any physicians you know, the truth is that most private insurance companies pay better than Medicaid programs.

    Those New York doctors don’t want market based solutions – they want single payer.

  6. Mac on 18/18/13 at 10:22 am

    “You can keep your doctor”. That pledge obviously going on the ash heap of history. Mine is either going to go fully private, taking no insurance, or retiring. A number of hospitals are waiting to sign on board with the insurers until after they see the compensation arrangements. That is where the real lack of transparency will bite. You had coverage that used to get you into the Mount Sinais and the Sloan Ketterings of your city but now gets you that bucket o’ blood you passed on the way to work always wondering why people would go there….

  7. Lily on 18/18/13 at 10:24 am

    Yes, it sounds like a left-leaning doctor wanting single payer. Always nice when you can count on government to pay your salary

    I think we’d be better off if ‘health insurance’ actually worked like insurance. That is to say, protect you from catastrophic losses. We should be paying out of pocket for routine care, just like we pay out of pocket for routine car maintenance and routine house maintenance. Trust me, it would be less expenses for most people than paying high monthly premiums, plus the co-pays etc.

  8. Andrew on 18/18/13 at 10:46 am

    There’s a lot more to this story. Even in theory Obamacare only works if large volumes of people sign up for it. As part of building up Obamacare the govt went around to hospitals the past several years essentially signing them up. What this entailed was promising them less money but guaranteeing them an increase in patients and also guaranteeing them a decrease in insurance-less patients. A hollow promise, but what they agreed to nonetheless. This is what they’ve been doing the past several years. But the hospitals agreed to start charging less from day one. For about 3 years now all the hospitals that signed up have been losing even more money on medicare/medicaid patients than they were in years previous, massive amounts of money. All on the promise that come Jan 1 2014 a huge wave of patients would start rolling in, which would recoup those losses and losses for continued years. If the Obamacare promises don’t pan out, many hospitals will simply go out of business.

    And this is also one reason the defund strategy is sort of stupid. It only addresses half the problem. Yes, this would alleviate patients and businesses from signing up. But what about the hospitals which were compelled to sign up and are being forced to provide services for free? Defunding Obamacare would help individual taxpayers, but it would drive hospitals further down the hole. So in a moral sense it’s wrong. But also in a practical sense it could hurt even worse. The only way the hospitals can stay in business is to run a balanced book. If they are taking in even less money, that means they are forced to charge those who are paying even more money. So those of us who already had insurance or are paying cash, your rates just went up anyway, by even more, despite defunding Obamacare.

    The only way to solve Obamacare is to repeal the law.

  9. Andrew on 18/18/13 at 11:13 am

    “Talks to any physicians you know, the truth is that most private insurance companies pay better than Medicaid programs.”

    Marginally better. Medicaid programs may payout 1/4 of the invoice, whereas private insurance is 1/3. The point though is that under Obamacare that is likely to change. The private companies are holding a bigger bag. They are compelled to provide a service for some premium. When the math doesn’t add up and they are losing money as everybody predicts they will start to, they simply start paying less out.

    This is one thing nobody sees. Doctor invoices for some amount, and NOBODY pays that amount. Nobody. It’s the craziest thing ever. And yet the doctors keep providing services because what can they do? It’s a very weird convoluted relationship, and it only works through volume. A company like bluecross will operate in an area, develop a relationship with the local hospital and doctors. They find a balance that makes everybody profitable enough to make it worth it.

    The healthcare system has been jacked up long before Obamacare. The insurance model is a broken system because it’s not insurance, it’s more like a service plan. The root cause of all this is lack of personal responsibility. If people paid cash for services they would instantaneously become more responsible. Maybe they don’t need to go to the doctor for every little sniffle and cold. Maybe the diabetic would finally start following their diet. People treat their bodies like it’s a rental car thanks to insurance.

    Here’s how you fix the system.

    The first step in fixing the system is to legally free hospitals and doctors from providing free services. This includes the emergency room. Allow them to turn patients away.

    I know this isn’t politically correct with the ER. And I agree that it’s not practical to ask for method of payment for someone who’s bleeding out and needs to be dealt with immediately. So the ER should still fix people first. But the law needs to be changed such that hospitals are legally able to go after people for collection. Patients who haven’t paid should be fingerprinted before leaving the hospital. And healthcare debt should be like child support. They can garnish your wages and basically ruin your life to get their money. And if you’re an illegal, you go to jail. You stay in jail until your debt is paid by a family member, and then you’re deported.

    This would allow the ER to keep providing critical care, but force people to be responsible.

    Doctors would then start dropping patients. Sorry, I don’t accept medicare. Sorry, I don’t accept medicaid. These systems would collapse on their own. Prices would drop, and people would start paying cash for services. Insurance would shift to what it was originally meant for, catastrophic care. I only want insurance to kick in for something insanely high in cost, like $50k or more. Up to this I’ll pay cash for services. I have a healthy family, our annual costs are near zero. Far less than what I pay in premiums and deductible. But because of everything else in the system that’s broken, paying cash isn’t an option. If you pay cash things are just ridiculously expensive. Medicare/caid pays a fraction of what the hospital invoices, but I don’t have that option. The hospital gives me 100%. Simple things like even a saline IV can cost $10-15k. Freaking water administered is the price of a car! And it’s because the hospital loses SO MUCH money from all the various forms of insurance that the prices hike up to compensate.

  10. Pete on 18/18/13 at 11:36 am

    I am a subspecialty physician. The only doctors who want obamacare (or the evil of socialist health care) are academic physicians who look down their noses at physicians who work in “for profit” medical systems.

    Obamacare isn’t just incompetent. It is evil. It is taking perfectly good health insurance that people who worked had before and snatching it from them to force us all into a miserable, one-size-fits-all shibboleth of socialist misery for no purpose other than to give totalitarian jackasses like Obama, Schumer, Reid, Durbin and Pelosi ever greater power over the lives of we the plebian people.

    If obamacare is so great, why are congress members and unions demanding (and getting) special dispensation from it?

    How on earth does adding 16,000 new IRS agents but not one single doctor increase access to medical care?

    How does adding layers and layers of totally incompentent government bureaucracy ever decrease the cost of medical care?

    These are questions the leftist jackasses cannot answer, so they resort to calling you greedy, racist and unconcerned with “poor people who can’t get medical care” as they hurl their nasty invective at you for asking common sense questions.

    Ever since obamacare was passed, I have made it clear to patients when they complain that they cannot find a doctor who will accept medicaid or medicare, that it will only get worse under obamacare, and I explain WHY. I ask them how long they would be able to continue working if it cost them more money to do their job than they were getting paid to do it. People are shocked at the horrible reimbursement rates medicare and medicaid pay, and totally surprised when I show them how private insurance has to pay more to allow the physician to make up for the cost of caring for medicaid patients.

    The way to bring medical costs down requires:

    1. Tort reform. Caps on damages and “loser pays” to stop the medical lawsuit lottery system of the ambulance chasers. Prohibition of contingency fee law.

    2. End government involvement in medical care coverage. Phase out medicare and medicaid for people currently under 45. The only involvement the government should have in medicine is providing medical care for our military members and in ensuring proper credentialling of physicians.

    3. Allow people to purchase insurance across state lines and to purchase coverage for what is relevent to them. There is absolutely no reason a post-menopausal woman, nor any man, needs maternity coverage. If I am not an alcoholic nor a drug abuser, then I don’t need coverage for recovery programs. If I have no children, then I don’t need coverage for child wellness visits.

    4. Allow hospitals and doctors to deduct from their taxes the amount of money they give up providing charity care. This needs to be dollar for dollar – if I give away $10,000 in care to someone who cannot pay for it but needs it to save his or her life, then I should be able to deduct that from my taxes. So should hospitals. Now, we aren’t talking about “charity” boob jobs for tax deductions – we are talking necessary medical care.

    5. Secure the borders and stop allowing illegal aliens to come across the border in labor to deliver babies on US soil to gain instant citizenship, welfare and SS benefits. Strip the medical licenses of any physician who is engaging in this type of selling of US citizenship – which is going on every day all along the southern border right now.

    6. Pass a Constitutional amendment that requires all members of the federal government to be prohibited from any exemptions to any laws they pass for the rest of us.

    I know this won’t every happen, because it would take power away from the leftists if they weren’t able to buy the votes of the uneducated, the lazy and the greedy.

    Democrats are nothing more than scumbag drug dealers, pushing their government crack trying to get the masses addicted to it so they will keep voting for their increased enslavement.

  11. jukin on 18/18/13 at 12:24 pm

    From each according to their abilities.
    To each according to their needs.

    Welcome to the USSA.

    When the really huge problems (the roll out disaster is nothing) come to the cACA Obama HellCare with the actual delivery whose fault will it be? We know ti won’t be Obama’s fault and he will be fighting against the dark forces that are against him and the masses. Notice how that is always the default with commies/fascists/progressives for their own failed policies?

  12. Buffalobob on 18/18/13 at 1:44 pm

    Well let me speculate, Doctor in NYC voted for ??? Who will he vote for in the upcoming NYC election if he is eligible. Vote for progs get proged.

  13. dreadpirateroberta on 18/18/13 at 5:00 pm

    Well said Dr Pete. I work in a hospital which by law cannot turn away anyone from the emergency room. We are over-run with illegal aliens who have no intention of ever paying their bills. What most people don’t realize is that we are forced to provide follow-up care for these emergency visits. Often this can mean dialysis 3 times a week forever…at a cost of over 20 thousand dollars a month. I am not even allowed to call the authorities when I find a non-citizen using someone else’s Social Security number. We are completely screwed.

  14. hutch1200 on 18/18/13 at 5:16 pm

    “So in a moral sense it’s wrong. But ….making little sisters of the poor offer abortions/Birth Control, is OK. You are an azzhat for even mentioning dems and morals in the same post. Jag-off.
    Andrew on 18/18/13 at 10:46 am

  15. Will Munny on 18/18/13 at 7:09 pm

    Obmacare was never designed to function a long term solution to healthcare coverage. It was designed to make private health insurance untenable, and this pave the way for a single-payer system.

    The Democrats have said as much themselves.

    Obamacare turns insurance from a risk transfer contract to an obligation transfer contract. Once fully implemented, it will take two years at most to start driving companies from the market.

    Spending time discussing the problems of the rollout is a distraction and actually furthers the aims of the program. The problems are a feature, not a bug.

  16. Will Munny on 18/18/13 at 7:10 pm

    Obamacare was never designed to function a long term solution to healthcare coverage. It was designed to make private health insurance untenable, and this pave the way for a single-payer system.

    The Democrats have said as much themselves.

    Obamacare turns insurance from a risk transfer contract to an obligation transfer contract. Once fully implemented, it will take two years at most to start driving companies from the market.

    Spending time discussing the problems of the rollout is a distraction and actually furthers the aims of the program. The problems are a feature, not a bug.

  17. RJ Vannoy on 19/19/13 at 9:58 am

    This needs repeated and re posted all over the the internet:

    “Pete on 18/18/13 at 11:36 am

    I am a subspecialty physician. The only doctors who want obamacare (or the evil of socialist health care) are academic physicians who look down their noses at physicians who work in “for profit” medical systems.

    Obamacare isn’t just incompetent. It is evil. It is taking perfectly good health insurance that people who worked had before and snatching it from them to force us all into a miserable, one-size-fits-all shibboleth of socialist misery for no purpose other than to give totalitarian jackasses like Obama, Schumer, Reid, Durbin and Pelosi ever greater power over the lives of we the plebian people.

    If obamacare is so great, why are congress members and unions demanding (and getting) special dispensation from it?

    How on earth does adding 16,000 new IRS agents but not one single doctor increase access to medical care?

    How does adding layers and layers of totally incompentent government bureaucracy ever decrease the cost of medical care?

    These are questions the leftist jackasses cannot answer, so they resort to calling you greedy, racist and unconcerned with “poor people who can’t get medical care” as they hurl their nasty invective at you for asking common sense questions.

    Ever since obamacare was passed, I have made it clear to patients when they complain that they cannot find a doctor who will accept medicaid or medicare, that it will only get worse under obamacare, and I explain WHY. I ask them how long they would be able to continue working if it cost them more money to do their job than they were getting paid to do it. People are shocked at the horrible reimbursement rates medicare and medicaid pay, and totally surprised when I show them how private insurance has to pay more to allow the physician to make up for the cost of caring for medicaid patients.

    The way to bring medical costs down requires:

    1. Tort reform. Caps on damages and “loser pays” to stop the medical lawsuit lottery system of the ambulance chasers. Prohibition of contingency fee law.

    2. End government involvement in medical care coverage. Phase out medicare and medicaid for people currently under 45. The only involvement the government should have in medicine is providing medical care for our military members and in ensuring proper credentialling of physicians.

    3. Allow people to purchase insurance across state lines and to purchase coverage for what is relevent to them. There is absolutely no reason a post-menopausal woman, nor any man, needs maternity coverage. If I am not an alcoholic nor a drug abuser, then I don’t need coverage for recovery programs. If I have no children, then I don’t need coverage for child wellness visits.

    4. Allow hospitals and doctors to deduct from their taxes the amount of money they give up providing charity care. This needs to be dollar for dollar – if I give away $10,000 in care to someone who cannot pay for it but needs it to save his or her life, then I should be able to deduct that from my taxes. So should hospitals. Now, we aren’t talking about “charity” boob jobs for tax deductions – we are talking necessary medical care.

    5. Secure the borders and stop allowing illegal aliens to come across the border in labor to deliver babies on US soil to gain instant citizenship, welfare and SS benefits. Strip the medical licenses of any physician who is engaging in this type of selling of US citizenship – which is going on every day all along the southern border right now.

    6. Pass a Constitutional amendment that requires all members of the federal government to be prohibited from any exemptions to any laws they pass for the rest of us.

    I know this won’t every happen, because it would take power away from the leftists if they weren’t able to buy the votes of the uneducated, the lazy and the greedy.

    Democrats are nothing more than scumbag drug dealers, pushing their government crack trying to get the masses addicted to it so they will keep voting for their increased enslavement.”

  18. RJ Vannoy on 19/19/13 at 9:59 am

    This needs repeated and re posted all over the the internet:

    I am a subspecialty physician. The only doctors who want obamacare (or the evil of socialist health care) are academic physicians who look down their noses at physicians who work in “for profit” medical systems.

    Obamacare isn’t just incompetent. It is evil. It is taking perfectly good health insurance that people who worked had before and snatching it from them to force us all into a miserable, one-size-fits-all shibboleth of socialist misery for no purpose other than to give totalitarian jackasses like Obama, Schumer, Reid, Durbin and Pelosi ever greater power over the lives of we the plebian people.

    If obamacare is so great, why are congress members and unions demanding (and getting) special dispensation from it?

    How on earth does adding 16,000 new IRS agents but not one single doctor increase access to medical care?

    How does adding layers and layers of totally incompentent government bureaucracy ever decrease the cost of medical care?

    These are questions the leftist jackasses cannot answer, so they resort to calling you greedy, racist and unconcerned with “poor people who can’t get medical care” as they hurl their nasty invective at you for asking common sense questions.

    Ever since obamacare was passed, I have made it clear to patients when they complain that they cannot find a doctor who will accept medicaid or medicare, that it will only get worse under obamacare, and I explain WHY. I ask them how long they would be able to continue working if it cost them more money to do their job than they were getting paid to do it. People are shocked at the horrible reimbursement rates medicare and medicaid pay, and totally surprised when I show them how private insurance has to pay more to allow the physician to make up for the cost of caring for medicaid patients.

    The way to bring medical costs down requires:

    1. Tort reform. Caps on damages and “loser pays” to stop the medical lawsuit lottery system of the ambulance chasers. Prohibition of contingency fee law.

    2. End government involvement in medical care coverage. Phase out medicare and medicaid for people currently under 45. The only involvement the government should have in medicine is providing medical care for our military members and in ensuring proper credentialling of physicians.

    3. Allow people to purchase insurance across state lines and to purchase coverage for what is relevent to them. There is absolutely no reason a post-menopausal woman, nor any man, needs maternity coverage. If I am not an alcoholic nor a drug abuser, then I don’t need coverage for recovery programs. If I have no children, then I don’t need coverage for child wellness visits.

    4. Allow hospitals and doctors to deduct from their taxes the amount of money they give up providing charity care. This needs to be dollar for dollar – if I give away $10,000 in care to someone who cannot pay for it but needs it to save his or her life, then I should be able to deduct that from my taxes. So should hospitals. Now, we aren’t talking about “charity” boob jobs for tax deductions – we are talking necessary medical care.

    5. Secure the borders and stop allowing illegal aliens to come across the border in labor to deliver babies on US soil to gain instant citizenship, welfare and SS benefits. Strip the medical licenses of any physician who is engaging in this type of selling of US citizenship – which is going on every day all along the southern border right now.

    6. Pass a Constitutional amendment that requires all members of the federal government to be prohibited from any exemptions to any laws they pass for the rest of us.

    I know this won’t every happen, because it would take power away from the leftists if they weren’t able to buy the votes of the uneducated, the lazy and the greedy.

    Democrats are nothing more than scumbag drug dealers, pushing their government crack trying to get the masses addicted to it so they will keep voting for their increased enslavement.”

  19. Keapon Laffin on 19/19/13 at 12:41 pm

    I can’t find it in a quick Google search. Can I still pay my doctor in cash? Like I’ve always done. I got 1 doctor, 1 prescription and all that is cheaper than any (general coverage?) insurance I coulda bought before Obamacare. 70 or 140(rarely) bucks a year for the doctor(office visit), 50-70 every three months for the meds. Free Market price fluctuations for the meds, it’s been at the lower end of the scale lately but at least I had a chance to shop around. WalMart would charge me 3x more than my current Big Box Store pharmacy. Tho I imagine that will change in the ‘worse’ direction so now, Thx Obamacare!, I could save myself a 2 hour drive to pay 4x as much as I currently do.
    If I can’t, then fine. I’ll deal with it. All I know is:

    I Will Not Comply.

    PS: My doc has horrible bedside manner, which is why I like him. He’s a No-BS kinda guy. He gives me a discount cause I pay cash. I know he doesn’t do this out of the goodness of his heart. He does it because it saves him money, and like any good business-person, he passes those savings onto the customer(Repeat Customer, Word Of Mouth Advertising!) thus getting more customers. He doesn’t have to pay for all the paperwork needed to go thru the ‘old-skool’ insurance deal when I pay cash. Heck, I got an office visit once where I paid in the old fashioned Barter system. He provided Medical Services, I provided Techical Services. No money exchanged hands. It was one of my Proud To Be An American days. Well, thas every day but ya know those extra-special Capitalized days are what makes American life awesome.